Incredible Panel Discussion with EOS, Ethereum and Ripple at Blockchain Live

Ok so we’ve got incredible panel here
for this afternoon now and I know probably some of you are expecting some
fireworks we’ve got three of the top five blockchains
onstage together representatives from those chains what we’re gonna do in
terms of the format is we’re gonna let each of the panelists start off maybe
take a few minutes to introduce themselves talk a little bit about what
they’re working on and then and then I’ll kick things off with a question or
two before we actually turn it over to you to really drive the discussion we
want to keep this interactive very fluid and no-holds-barred so feel free to ask
away about anything and everything you think
would be of interest do you understand we’re just spaces going this is gonna be
very exciting so first Marcus do you want to again yes if the mic works well
maybe good spot after thanks some payment comes in something before obtained in some Cisco hitting up there
around the CTO block one then founder of the three most used blockchains bitch
sheriff’s team and the most recent dangers yes I know much different these
three guys here blockchain agnostic and we work with actually all of this
technology one way or another we build applications for the user and anybody
can use on whichever blocks you get that data science issues Joseph Lubin one of the founders of the
etherium platform a year into that project I started a company called
consensus to essentially continue the vision of the etherion platform a
consensus were currently 1,100 people in 35 countries we
have other products focus a lot of infrastructure and network SS models and
war components we do enterprise government central bank consulting we do
a lot of educational work we do various capital markets activities
alright guys we’ve got an active audience it looks like good to you so
it’s gonna make it even more fun got where to begin so you know you guys will
get a pretty brief introductions I guess inching for me I think to hear it may
get the audience to hear what things are you most excited about on your
respective platforms that you guys are working on today what what things you
know that you’re most interested in that you think of the most innovative or
impactful or maybe even what is the greatest misunderstanding about us a
ripple or yo se or a particular platform he has two questions there but you know
I think um the most important reality is that this is really introduction so
ripple we are transacting four bytes of paper companies well forty countries now by year-end blockchain tech it’s DLC
tech we also have a crypto currency it’s ugly in the equation we have created a
banking scheme which we can work on there
which is kind of version of the old Swift of the 21st century we worked with
banks now for the past four years and that’s how we’ve come out of the lab
into realities we are a real payments company which was active today which
runs out tomorrow it’s an open network it has all of the components of the
blockchain theory sound design set and it’s real and I think when I get a
conference as of the people talk about the detection of maybe future
is happening now in Israel that’s better close the blockchain of
today it’s the fugitive let your chief great Dan go ahead I think I’m most
excited for the same blockchain applied to all businesses not just financial
businesses not just things of tokens USA it was being used for everything from
email to games the social media to the next generation decentralized exchanges particularly the bridge of blockchain
from just being a technology to something that is seamlessly integrated
so people don’t know they’re using the blockchain I think that’s the real
future of the technology is it’s a back-end thing that businesses are going
to adopt because it fundamentally changes the security it has bigger
bigger than going from internet without encrypted connections to the new one
that’s so fundamental that businesses that don’t upgrade in the next ten years
will probably be deemed negligent it doesn’t matter if you’re Twitter or
Facebook or whatnot the technology fundamentally secures things and it’s
also going to change how we deal with legal documents identity and how I get
consent from our users so those are the things that we try to do with the OSI o
is make sure that when you’re interacting with the blockchain you know
what you’re signing and then you’re not spoofed and assigning something
just a bunch of bits and a ledger somewhere but it’s actually real
meaningful legal agreements that enable communities to cooperate in new ways do
you want to go an excerpt we should let Joe if you can back clean up or talk
about that okay I can echo some of the things that can just talking about space
that’s 2013 we work with over a hundred companies
this makes it humble from most of these guys companies we help
and what we learned is that there wasn’t going to be one solution that that was
going to solve everything so we started building platforms that will work with
multiple solutions to drive that a dog show website was launched in 1994 the first
search engine was launched in 1997 Amazon had over a million views
that went from night to an iteration that everybody can use
where that’s what we’re lacking in function today so I’m excited about a
block chains that are looking at dry user adoption to the mass appeal
everybody was in the audience today real quick before Joe goes can everyone
here okay just let make sure the audio is it’s been a bit wobbly on a couple of
microphones yes yeah I think your microphone that’s mine down for the
other I try to speak loudly it’s a big picture what we’re excited about is the
ability to bring forth technology that will enable the world to build better
systems for itself the thesis is that we built layers and layers of technology
for thousands of years but it’s all been sitting on a pretty flimsy foundation
it’s been sitting on a the subjective Trust foundation we’re moving from a
world of top-down command and control hierarchical systems that set up systems
in those rural systems are enforced sometimes well sometimes capriciously
we’re moving from subjective trust systems to automated trust we’re moving
towards being able to build rule systems for our societies for agreements between
parties or agreements among nation states that can essentially be
guaranteed in their execution and agreements on log chain so the thesis
there is if you’re gonna build these foundational elements if you’re going to
move all of the native foundational elements like identity and money and
government certificates and reputation and
bereavements in to natively digital form decentralization is very important and
so radical decentralization where you have maybe tens of thousands of notes
that all can inspect the data on the platforms can inspect the programs can
verify that the programs haven’t been changed since you last used it without
noticing yet those are that’s the foundation that we need to build up
layers and layers of infrastructure on top of it ok great so why don’t we start
looking out to the audience here for questions who want to give you as much
of a chance as possible to interact with this great panel really drive the
discussion shirt go ahead please introduce yourself too before you ask
your question I am the crispy alum via London community in the banking
community as well my question is around layer 1 and layer 2 technologies is is
that differentiation of layer 1 and layer 2 a real thing was it something we
imagined and if so was there I think all layers are blocked change so
what I mean by that is yes the networks of networks blockchains to talk to each
other layer two just means and hey I got another mini blockchain that’s
coordinating what’s happening in the interim and I think the future is
thousands of private blockchains potentially with public headers that
then you use inter blockchain communication to prove what happened on
the private chain to the public chain back and forth so there’s definitely
going to be layers but I don’t think it’s going to be one global this chain
rolls them all it’s going to be many many different chains that all appears
for each other and they’re all you know coordinating to each other rather than
player 1 2 3 yes I agree with that vision largely but I don’t feel like all
layers are block genes I think all there’s our safety centralized protocols
to some degree we probably will have lots of block chains at the base or
foundational layer that’s where we would get the trust from
a really rigorous post from but we heat people watch genes for trusted
transactions automated agreements smart software objects we also need
decentralized storage decentralized bandwidth decentralized heavy compute
proof of location so layer two technology involves things like state
channels return nearly a blockchain they can involve with side chains which are
block chains that get linked into a base layer
the plasma technology on the etherion platform okay
waking in something that doesn’t have a watch chain architecture via that plasma
technology so you can move tokens from that particular construct could be maybe
a sequel database back into the theorem for our security
I’m glad we got on to this topic early on because I think a lot of people of
course are wondering about the future and you know which which protocols which
chains are going to survive thrive you know where should you build on you know
what should you invest in and so on and maybe Kevin someone is using you know
all these technologies you can talk about that decision process maybe even
time when Anthony was talking about in terms the commodification of the
technology over time where should people be building how should they be thinking
about you know where to invest their time their resources talking a little bit just about the
interoperability and watching which is what they’re kind of talking about a
little bit of a different opinion because when it comes to the energy
spend and consensus mechanisms of many different law changes really hard to
kind of get them to code together into one
one atmosphere so that they can work cross chain or multi-chain and whatever
universe fried entity or Peter Pan transactions or legally
binding contracts and we’ve done research on this with many different
luncheons all of theirs to find out that you’re not going to
really have one block to you privately sure it’s going to work you need to kind
of build a solution that’s specific to the problem and when it comes to their 1
or later to build applications that will work on top of all of these block chains
as a layer 2 solution to talk to them in one efficient manner and we’ve actually
done this and proven this out with our product either burden so whether it’s a
state channel or a side chain what we’re seeing is we’re seeing more movability
with and with taps and applications that can work with multiple block chains in
that fashion yeah from the outside we’ve been looking at me the cross-border
payment opens ripple is focused entirely on making the cross-border payments
experience the media much much better than it is today to do that very quickly
we hit this problem the world on a blockchain so we’ve also been
concentrating a lot on the question of how do you tie them all together and
interesting model that we’re really big fans of that we’ve actually adopted is
the installation model the idea is that you take the design of the internet for
information and you can re-create that using the top
in a kind of blockchain connected way and that’s kind of the bedrock of how we
connect up bytes and paper copies worldwide and it works because in the
future as it now you won’t jump beautifully to approach a world you’ll
live in a very messy world with old technology with technology Rochin legacy
Bloodshy new and for certain there’ll be thousands or millions of islands of
information and data buddy the trick is to interconnected if you can create a
mentor that model for value or for identity that you’ve really got
something because the open connectivity allow the outside in connect across I’m
not worrying about level-1 level-2 you’ve got a genuinely interconnected
well that’s gotta where we’re focusing great let’s turn back over to the
audience here now who has a question that now there’s one or thereabout you introduce
yourself hi I’m Rob from yes Detroit so there’s a lot of
confusion in the industry about the meaning of decentralization and how we
quantify it I’m wondering what you guys think are characteristics of meaningful
decentralization and why we strive for that is industry great question
and once to take the idea where decentralization is
really about accountability auditability it’s about making sure that the data is
public so that everyone has complete access to the data to verify
a radio station that broadcasts all the transactions everyone’s got a copy
everyone can come to consensus on what it is the challenge with all these
systems is how to honey insuring what needs to go on here and in all the
different protocols nothing like est the bitch hears you got
20 different people that take turns an equal opportunity to put something on
the air and they’re elected by thousands or tens of thousands of individual
stakeholders in trust work like systems you got two or three mining pools that I
determine what are going on the air they’re not evenly distributed apart
from I have 30 percent that next one I have 20 percent they’re kind of
distributed according to Creek to the Pareto principle they’re the ones that
of the DJs which are like what goes on there they’re the gatekeepers
so that’s centralization the right to publish and so that’s how I would define
these centralization is making sure it’s public everyone has access to it but we
still have to come up with better systems to make sure that everyone has
the opportunity to speak but it’s a scarce resource there’s only so much
opportunity to speak on any given chain therefore it’s probably market
determines it but that’s the biggest challenge in
decentralisation so I I would
pointed permissionless attachment to the network the ability to become a
validator on the network if if you chose to near impossibility for censoring
transactions on a network I I feel like you should be able to inspect all the
data and you should be able to be you should have probably programs that are
subject to consensus on the network so that you can’t say stand up a business
model the payment system and then behind the scenes change the rules of the
payment system and have all the validators still come to consensus about
what the data is even though people are unknowingly paying more having a small number of validators in
control of a system sets up some both vulnerabilities in my opinion they can
collude they can be known to state actors who could potentially censor
their activities they could be known to powerful well resourced actors who could
convince them to process some transactions ahead of others or censor
some transactions or produce some other sorts of activities it is absolutely
true that we’re in the very early stages of the blockchain era and none of our
systems are as well decentralized as we would like them to be proof-of-work is
is something that we chose on the etherion project cuz we knew we could
make it work we initially wanted to build a proof of state system but we
were aware of edge cases from previous systems that you are concerned about as
we move to towards proof of stake on material it will be low barrier to entry
it won’t burn lots of electricity you’ll be able to run it on a phone or a fairly
lightweight device anybody will be able to participate and so that’s sort of
radical decentralization that’s that’s the sort of
trust infrastructure that I think a society can be more comfortable with I
think that can sum up my ideal to socialize platform in three points equal
rights equal votes and full transparency and that’s what I think is meaningful
decentralization yeah yes sir dozen thoughts level it’s
uh it’s kind of true if that big point is actually a very centralized
they say they’ve got the rocks that can seep into even the best designs is where
the whole thing becomes very clunky and that’s where these issues start to
really kick in so I think one of the strengths of good project is one whereby
you really can kind of kind of like counter that drift towards over
centralization and that’s where you get a model that’s much more viable for the
long term it’s fair it’s open but you’re going to think very differently about
how are you proof and how you manage that it’s going to be an ongoing battle it’s
going to be cyclical there’s a lot of value created there there’s a lot of
interested parties trying to capture that value so what you need to do is
commit yourself with full focus to ferreting out situations where
centralization does development and build mechanism to make it much less
easy to persist or develop further my belief is that true decentralization
is the free market it’s the ability to have lots of different block chains
competing with each other because only the market is open entry anyone can
enter into it it’s very difficult to censor because someone just starts a new
change so having many different block chains each operated by different groups
all competing to put her in the trust of the users is that competition
competition car trust that will drive value and competition that keeps people
honest and that’s the ultimate decentralization having any one platform
rule them all will be centralized in its own right that’s that’s a good point so
decentralization can apply it so many different levels we can have a
decentralization of transaction validators of voters for validators of
the money itself for the tokens itself we can have decentralization in these
open-source platforms where we loved on the etherium project the idea that
anybody could come along in for car code or even for car actual running platform
and you know if they have a philosophical difference of maybe they
think immutability means something different from this group of things it
means then they can take a running system and for
thereby decentralize again so we felt that the ability for anybody to come
along make improvements or turn it in a different direction because they’re
following different philosophies would a keep us honest but dia enable us to
explore the solution space a little bit more widely great ok so let’s look back
to the audience now I see end up here and then let’s go with someone who’s
closer to Irene here maybe actually we have a there’s a woman who won as a
question let’s I think you yes my name is Julia I’m from Tokyo I just wonder a
decent a drastic price drop of the e30 and I have a lots of in sodium 80% of my
portfolio is done some very concerning my situation do you have any advice so
we we prefer not to speak about the price we prefer to focus on building out
the technology it’s very early days we’ve seen five or six massive rises in
Corrections since the start of Bitcoin we’re gonna see more of those things I
expect the ecosystem to grow by many orders of magnitude the one thing you
might take solace in is that every time we see one of these massive rises in
value coming into the ecosystem it’s not just monetary value it’s technologists
and entrepreneurs and attention from many people
maybe not straight Main Street people but many different actors in society who
suddenly find something of interest in the blockchain space every time we see
one of those surges it corrects in price but we still have 10 or 50 times more
people in our ecosystem building the fundamental infrastructure for the next
search we tell our community all the time if you believe in it divided the
wider world they’re just investing that gives it great longevity but it is about
the long game we think it’s about the long game and it’s not about the end of
it then you have with these assets a young
memory oh it’s different it’s definitely about the long game but in the near term
if you’re paying attention to our ecosystem you will be aware of the
exponential growth of the ecosystem we are about to see a bunch of different
projects coming online that we believe will be interesting to somewhat regular
consumers so project called civil which is a platform for sustainable and
ethical journalism it’s something that we really need on this planet and games
are just going to be out of control so what you can do for gaming platforms is
different than what could be done before you can have natively digital assets
scarce collectibles there’s one of the standards on etherium enables composable
tokens so you can take a bunch of land and a horse and a house and turn that
into a single property you can trade that we have tokens that are able to
move from one game to another or move to another or to a platform
basically to trade these different tokens so all of these technologies are
bringing their own layer to scalability solutions so we’re going to see
thousands of transactions per second in real-time fluid user interfaces these
are available starting now and these are going to be released throughout this
year and into next year there’s zombie battleground that’s infinity thoughts
unchanged crypto roam the horse it’s gonna be an explosion and it’s a
great space to experiment with this technology we need to because further
decades software engineers have been pushing the limits of scalability
whatever CPU cycles are memory your screen real estate you have you make use
of and so every time you push those bounds the developers of the protocols
or the technologies know exactly where they need to extend those bounces gaming
is gonna really push us over the next year or so I think a lot of the
challenges in the cryptocurrency space is that so much focus has been on
currency who’s got to witness xpeke currency bitcoin really got a lot
of adoption there and all the other long sheets they need to survive on their
utility when their utility is based upon the capacity of the network to handle
things the number of applications real-world applications that actually
need the tokens to serve a purpose whether it’s accessing CPU or network or
memory access as the value of the tokens it’s not going to be so much based upon
the money but the real world uses the limited resources this is kind of like
real estate on different block chains so don’t be looking for the massive
currency adoption a lot of these chains are going to be in commodities and
there’s gonna be a lot of competition and a lot of chains all offering similar
services so you really have to look at each chain as as its own little micro
City and its value but it’s gonna be tied to so many business is what to
co-locate do they actually need the currency of that chain or do they need
something else but don’t look at everything
touken up there is going to be the next Bitcoin or the next currency
world because that’s a very easy pitfall to make I Tama churchhouse from Hong Kong one
Kentucky that for the past couple hundred years the majority of
entrepreneurial capitalism has been built on the idea of a limited liability
corporation to what extent do you view blockchain as enabling a fundamental
pivot away from that to decentralized autonomous collectives corporations and
to what extent do you view those as potentially posing a threat to
traditional LLC type structures understand I think I’m with you I think
we’re looking at a major shift in how we organize ourselves and what’s happening
is for the first time the technology is not being used to automate us always
been done trade for example is automated train finance but it hasn’t changed
since Medici brothers very very young the second maybe sunny the world today we’ve
automates it in the end we’ve earned before debatable
suppose been around we haven’t really changed how we are organizing with the
chipping away at the edges with instead banking and app development but never
really attacking the center the blockchain technology of fundamentally
rethinking the concept of actually who is responsible for learning information
for managing data who is actually driving an economy and therefore who is
the organization so I think for the first time there’s a potential to
completely rethink how people work together and they’ll also lead to a
rethink it what makes up an organization is really exciting development and I
think like you it’ll play out over the next 20 years when I originally
introduced the concept of a deck back in 2013 it was a new type of organization
that is automating all the business transactions between the parties where
you use the companies are the tokens to transact with the business itself it’s
fundamentally different than other corporations because it doesn’t have any
guests manage does not manage in a sense of other people’s concentrating
liabilities can’t borrow on behalf of all the token holders that can’t own
assets on behalf of all the travelers itself sovereign over its own data and
that’s a new tech organization that has a lot of potential because it’s
just information economics and incentives among people when it comes to the new LLC structure
one of the things that I look at is how is it going to be covering how is it
going to be regulated and how are we going to agree on there so I think it’s
we’re still nascent to think you like something like a doubt which we see the
problem with that the past is well at work where we are
today I think that we need to take baby steps to kind of work with our
traditional centralized systems to build out what could it be a decentralized
model sometime in the future so I think that we’re gonna see a
revolution in how tokenized securities are built and I think that’s going to
bring profound transformation to existing structures so they’re they’re
platforms like my radio and harbor that are enabling tokenized securities
whether they’re real estate securities or other kinds of equities there are
bonds I think dental or bands and World Bank
and some banks and other banks are releasing bonds on etherium the
advantages are that you’re not going to have double issuance you’re not going to
have a hundred and forty percent of dole shares being voted you’re not going to
have naked short-selling so it’ll be a much more trust where the
infrastructure but I think the real value is liquidity so a lot of these
instruments don’t trade very fluidly and so if we can tokenize these things and
enable them to trade on different kinds of exchanges then you won’t have that
massive illiquidity discount if you’re you’re trying to get out of your
possession so that’s tokens will make all those
existing systems better but consumer utility tokens are
found new way of organizing for collective behavior organizing people
and companies to deliver services and products about three months ago bill
Heyman director of corporate finance the SEC in the u.s. spoke in San Francisco
he said ether was not a security but that wasn’t the exciting set of remarks
the exciting set of remarks were that the SEC recognized that you could create
this network business model you can using mechanism design design a token
that if properly architected could incentivize people to share their
resources to inhabit different roles on this network business platform and if
you structure the token properly and if you market it properly so you don’t sell
it in enormous quantities to speculators you sell it to people who are in some
way obliged to use that are constraint to use it then that would be a clean
consumer utility token then the SEC wouldn’t consider that a security I
think that business model is going to enable us all as we move from the web to
world to the web free world to have greater agency and in these kinds of
ways of delivering value unfortunately we’re getting close to the
end of our time so we’re really going to be looking for a great a great question
at this point he’s got the question that has not been asked that we you’re
confident in your question okay there’s no pressure here it’s better be good
though go ahead ladies the microphone up a
little more can you hate me now yeah I think price is the least important
discussion to have I agree with the sentiment that we should be focused on
building applications and infrastructure that’s enabled this nation as well and
so in your opinion guys what do you think of the applications or use cases
that we’re all missing people are not building and just should be more focused
on essential we just start here well you seem to have Leo out so I’m
still thinking of let me let me throw a curveball that I
think the important thing is to pick one problem what insertion points does a
really good job of delivering your blockchain deity model to address that
problem so in that respect I think generally with pretty well covers in our
world is payments and it were other groups looking at identity security I
think probably the the interesting next step would be to marry this technology
with the development of the Internet of Things the predictions around 50 billion
devices connected instead by 2020 it might be 40 might be 60 a very big
number as you start to combine brought Shane tank robotics with Aoi I think
there was some really interesting use case for how these taxable together to
affect people companies organizations how we live and how we work and that’s
probably where today we’re not really focusing because we’re just getting
started with kind of the obvious use case like the payments at Etsy
there’s probably some more development on the fringes that we can I think
pregnant well I think the biggest problem is the
fallacy to think that there’s a use case of watching technology if you’ve got a
multi-user website it can be migrated to a blockchain and your business will
benefit from it so rather than trying to look for something new to apply
launching to we should look at everything every business every website
that you interact with today and ask why is it this already on a blockchain and
that’s what we’re trying to do at block one is make sure that we’ve got
everything from the browser to the hardware keys to the backend application
layer suitable to rapidly build all modern websites on blockchain technology
we don’t need to go looking for some new business models of new token model in
order to benefit from blockchain technology the use cases are right in
front of us I think it echoes some of that stuff that’s what’s really
important about blockchain technology is how it’s going to affect our digital
processes and infrastructure and the future and make them more secure and
efficient if you’re looking at token it’s really just a vehicle of
information and what type of attached to that too attached to your
business so we’re looking at is solutions that take into account old
Sciences like archival science and archival bonds and how we use that
information and those laws to build up larger storage capabilities and
blockchain so that we can solve this financial problems on chain instead of
often so a couple things make sure their applications but usability for normal
human beings we need to do a lot of work a lot of experimentation on enabling
people to have self sovereign identity and wallets that they’re comfortable
using and that they can’t get into trouble if they lost their phone or
something like that and we’re building that in the form of you board and meta
mouse and the gnosis team is putting together wallets and bolts and getting
there fairly rapidly but it’s subtle we can on board say 93% of the population
with a whole bunch of hard work but it’s going to take a lot of work to take on
board the whole population in the same way that say the Apple computer company
very brilliantly unordered just an enormous number of people by
incrementally teaching them how to use the technology
different releases over the years one thing that we’re working very hard on
that’s a little bit subtle is the validity of the platform’s the validity
of the smart contracts on the platform so we need formal verifiability we need
to use something called pure functional languages and tools like mithril that
we’re building and others to enable the platforms on which we’re going to base
every aspect of our society on over the coming decades
we need formal proofs that that these things our work formal proofs are
basically like our pure functional languages are basically like executable
mathematics and you can really prove that within a certain domain in the
certain range these things are are known to function in a certain way we need
that at the smart contract or the application layer as well hello great well unfortunately that is
all the time we have for this amazing panel please join me in thanking our
incredible panelists for sharing their thoughts you

22 thoughts on “Incredible Panel Discussion with EOS, Ethereum and Ripple at Blockchain Live

  1. I think in terms of platform markets the ethereum operating system is hindered by low tx speeds and subsequent need to scale. The EEA are currently employing Parity Technologies to sort out the tx speed with ‘Shasper’ – a combo of sharding and PoS. If they can sort that in the next 6 months they might have a hope in hell competing against something like I don’t consider Ripple a platform market.

  2. on board 93% of the population on Ethereum? Yea ok. My transaction would be confirmed in 6 months. I don't believe in the one blockchain will rule them all thinking.

  3. Forbes: Joe Lubin’s Ethereum experiment is a mess
    due to his

    incompetence and dishonesty


  4. Please be mindful before losing any of your hard earned money. Lubin's global organism appears to be burning cash at a rate of more than $100 million a year, please read more here –

  5. Read this before dealing with businesses associated with Consensys and Joseph Lubin

  6. I do not trust Joe Lubin/Consensys or anything associated with him, my advice to all – stay away from them! Read here:

  7. “When worried staffers have questioned Lubin about ConsenSys’ sustainability, Lubin has always had a pat reply: “Joe would say, ‘This is definitely not something you need to worry about”.

    So must take care of your worth, and don’t invest Lubin experiment is a mess as per Forbes

  8. I do not trust the ConsenSys company! It is very risky to deal with businesses associated with Consensys and Lubin. Where is Lubin is very risky! Just Google "Forbes Lubin" to see what a mess Consensys is.

  9. I prefer to avoid anything that is related to Joe Lubin and ConsenSys companies. Joe Lubin does not manage Consensys well. Read here

  10. I prefer to avoid anything that is related to Joe Lubin. Lubin’s global organism appears to be burning cash at a rate of more than $100 million a year.

  11. According to Forbes and Verge articles, Joe Lubin is imcompetent, spending too much money while employees getting layed off.

  12. Joe Lubin is incompetant according to Forbes and Verge articles show they are on their way down.= –

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