If it was infinite how they got the third rock? I mean how they push the pawns to the end of the bored and if it was in infinite how they can got the third rock

The key for finding a puzzle where White wins on all Finite (8xn, where n is an integer) and loses on the infinite is to identify the difference: In the finite case a move such as Rock to hn is possible (moving to the top edge).

This can be incorporated into a puzzle if you need to limit the amount of squares on the g-file attacking the rook.

Imagine an 8xn board (where n > 22 ) https://lichess.org/editor/8/6qR/8/2p1P1p1/4P1P1/R1pNP1P1/R1PpP3/RR1B1k1K_w_Q_- And there are Black Queens on g14 and g21.

In the finite case: 1. R h7hn!! This threatens Rfn+ and eventually wins (Hopefully anyway, I may have missed some cases.

1. … Q g21gn 2. R a3an 2. … Q g14g(n-1) 3. R anxgn and wins 2. … Q gnf(n-1) 3. R anfn Q g14f14 4. R a2an This prepares Rxf(n-1) leading to mate.

In the infinite case: 1. R h7hN (Where N is a large integer) 1. … Q g21g(N+1)!! 2. R a3aN Q g14gN 3. R aNxgN Qg7xgN and black goes on to win.

Sorry Agadmator, but your explanation betrays a poor understanding of the definition of infinity. Infinity is that which cannot be reached; subtracting any value from infinity yields infinity again. If black moves the d5 rook to d(infinity), he can never be mated because any distance the rook or queen travels up will not block the king against the rook. Things moving an infinite distance away become unreachable instantly, even to other things which are moving an infinite distance away.

throughout the entire video the one question in my head was "but if the board is infinite, then the rook will never stop moving up the board so the game cannot proceed" xD lol i know i have a wacky brain

I got a question If black move it's rook to infinity then you can give queen to d3 check. And then win the rook on f5 and then win other rook as well. Then go for a checkmate. Not using that pattern which is on the board but instead other patterns. Could it be possible?

#suggestion Wesley So vs Garry Kasparov in Ultimate Blitz Challenge 2016 – Game 10. In my opinion one of the most beautiful blitz games ever played on history of chess. I would love to see that game and I'm sure everyone else will enjoy it aswell! Can I get a shotout for the suggestion? Sorry for my english, Argentinian fan here 😂. Love your vids!

Look – if the guy playing black can all of a sudden make the board "infinite" – then he's already in a "winning" position in my book, and my next question to him would be: can you do something similar with the 3 dollars I have in my wallet?

Hello Agadmator! I'm from Mexico City and I really enjoy watching all your videos! I'd like to request a game that is really interesting: Khanya Mazibuko (South African 16yr old CM) VS GM Hikaru Nakamura. It's very interesting that he actually decided to sponsor him after that game. I've not yet found the match, but I'd love to see it analyzed by you… BTW, HE BEAT THE GM!!! Thank you as always for these wonderful videos!

With infinite board, passed pawns loose their value as they can never promote, so say a game where it is black with a rook versus white with 6 passed pawns, finite board means white is likely going to win but on infinite black would likely have better chances

Two principal ideas for a position that will favor one side and on an infinite board will favor the other side: 1. Queening that normally cannot be stopped, but is irrelevant on an infinite board. 2. A piece that would normally get trapped in a finite board, but can save itself in an infinite board.

Hey short answer to your question. No its not possible for white to be winning on any finite (no matter how large) board, and black to be winning on an infinite one. In Math you could discribe it like this: The number of ways for black to win (if white plays the best moves) have to be zero for every amount of additional squares on your board. But for the limes of your squares to infinity the number has to be higher than 0. (At least one way for black to win). We can build a sequence of A(n) where A is the number of ways to win for black and n is the number of squares you add to your chess board. It trivial that A(n)= 0 for every n < infinity. So you can use convergence laws on a constant sequence and see that the limes -» infinity is just the constant itself. Meaning A(infinity)=0 and there are zero ways to win for black. This contradiction proves that it is not possible for white to win on an finite but black to win on an infinite board.

Here is the position: https://lichess.org/analysis/8/kp4nP/8/8/8/8/8/4K3_b_-_- It remind me about "The Defense" by Vladimir Nabokov. The main character of the novel is top chess player. In one of the games he gets into losing position and then he realizes that the knight should jump out of the board to win the game. Eventually it becomes metaphor for the suicide. #suggestion #answer

Hey agad, Maths has huge application in almost every field as you can observe in chess also!! There are tons of reason to fall in love with this subject!

Hey man.. do a live-stream.. its been quite some time.. a 2 hour 3-0 non cash tournament on lichess.com with your witty commentary and lively beer fest would be my preference … #suggestion

Black- Rook in g8 king in h8 queen in a8and pawns in h7 and g7 White- knite in h5 king in h2. White started mate in one in regular board and he lose in infinity board

Note: A really important factor in this logic is that you only expand the Y-axis indefinitely and not the X-axis, and that no one wants to draw through the 50th move rule.

If there was no 50th move rule, there wouldn't be any possibilities for change and the game would simply end in a draw or continue indefinitely, following this pattern. However, introducing this rule will actually provide black a chance to win as long as white doesn't resign through this rule, or is fast enough to get to check with a new queen before black's checkmate. Think about it, for white to avoid a draw they have to keep moving a pawn. Since the rule for promotion is still the same, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_(chess), black will have three moves, without being checked by white, before the fastest white pawn can get its promotion at h8. As long as white continue this pattern of walking up the board and trying to promote the fastest pawn, black has a checkmate in three. Resulting in a win before white's promotion.

Conclusion: If white plays a pawn tactic, that would make black's checkmate slower than white promotion + one more move for white, white is the winner through checking with new queen followed up with the old queen. Whereas as long as isn't the case, black will win.

A trivial example of a scenario like you asked for is where you have a tactic which checkmates in the corner on a finite board. If there is no perpetual and the material is uneven enough, the tactic won't work and the other side will be winning.

To answer your puzzle challenge… there would have to be some position where white would be winning if he had a pawn on the 7th rank with the opportunity to queen, but with an infinite board, he would be losing.

This is stupid, if the rook can move infinite squares then white never gets their turn and if the rook could actually move infinite squares then the king can also move infinite squares, it's a draw.

Wtf black needs to move rook on d row, next queen d3 check and pics up the rook on d diagonal, whats the problem white wins even with infinite board easly…????

Idk about adding pieces or whatever but ik you can't just say I move my rook to infinity it has to be finite meaning you eventually lose as black does that change?

4r1k1/5ppp/8/8/8/6QQ/5PPP/6K1 b – – 0 1 In this position black is winning, but if it were infinite, white could escape and there would me no mate It is a silly example, but shows the pattern for all other solutions 😉

Really..? The solution is so easy. Keep checking the black king towards the a file. Separate the black king from the rooks and do a checkmate. Avoid the stupid infinite board going up and down (It is only there to confuse you).

Most positions where White sacrifices a lot of material to checkmate the black king in a king hunt would fall under this category because the king could go to g9 or h9 or something like that. Also I interpreted this position as Black can't save himself on an infinite board if we revoke the 50-move rule, because he can't actually play a rook to d-infinity. He must move it a finite amount of squares, and then white can checkmate him with that number minus four amount of moves.

Regarding a losing position that flips to a winning position: How about a position where the losing player makes an infinite move which places the opposing player in zugzwang. To arrive at such a position, perhaps start with a known zugzwang position and add pieces to make it a losing position for the opponent. Then the infinite move flips the tables… to infinite zugzwang!

For a position where white is winning on a finite board but black is winning on infinite board: I'd say start with one where white is about to promote their pawn. On an infinite board, promotion is impossible. Back row mates are also not a thing.

White to play normal finite board: Smothered mate in 1. Infinite board: Black wins easily. https://lichess.org/analysis/kn2Nqq1/nn6/q3qqq1/1q3qq1/qq1q2q1/qq1qq3/qq1qqq2/qq1qqqNK_w_-_-

Agadmator that is not possible practically bcoz if u take finite number of moves as 'x' then in infinite board it will always cover x moves irrespective of boards length mentioned as infinite and ofcourse at the x moves white is winning no chance of black

This FEN code… 7k/bR4p1/2R5/6n1/8/3q3r/6K1/5r2 w – – 0 1

The bishop, two white rooks and the black king and pawn are at the edge of the finite board. In a finite board its mate in 1 for white but on infinite board the bishop will eventually be able to block check. And the black mate the whit king.

So on a finite board white win but infinite board black win.

Many "trapped piece" positions may have the property you describe. Well, except that on an infinite chess board it would be very hard for either side to win. I'm not sure Q + R + K vs K would be a winnable endgame on an infinite board in all circumstances. I'm thinking something like trapping the enemy king between the rook's "wall" and the king, then sweeping in with the queen to deliver checkmate.

Agadmator, to answer your question at the end, yes it is possible in the following scenario: white is down in material, but threatening to promote to a queen on its next move and gain an advantage. By playing the same position on an infinite board, promotion would not be possible, and black would be the winning side.

Rd∞ achieves a draw in the puzzle for black because white will make 49 checks and on black's 50th king move he will claim a draw by 50 moves, as this is truly a "perpetual" check 🙂

I mean you dont really need infinite chess board, just imagine connecting the 1st. row with the ninth row and a column with h column but it would need to be separeted on the start otherwise it would also break the kings rule of chess by which I mean how close can be two kings to each other

i like the idea mr. Agadmator but You also have to consider the '50 moves without a capture' rule. all the black rook has to do in an infinite chessboard, is to move as far away just enough so that the queen and the rook will have to spend more than 50 moves to give checkmate. thus ending in a draw.

Thank god the first men did not made chess these ways :))))))))) otherwise even Alpha zero needs at least one minute calculation before making any move :))))))))

cant white just move to d2 if black rook decides to go more than a few spaces up the d file and fork the peices?

If it was infinite how they got the third rock? I mean how they push the pawns to the end of the bored and if it was in infinite how they can got the third rock

The key for finding a puzzle where White wins on all Finite (8xn, where n is an integer) and loses on the infinite is to identify the difference: In the finite case a move such as Rock to hn is possible (moving to the top edge).

This can be incorporated into a puzzle if you need to limit the amount of squares on the g-file attacking the rook.

Imagine an 8xn board (where n > 22 )

https://lichess.org/editor/8/6qR/8/2p1P1p1/4P1P1/R1pNP1P1/R1PpP3/RR1B1k1K_w_Q_-

And there are Black Queens on g14 and g21.

In the finite case:

1. R h7hn!! This threatens Rfn+ and eventually wins (Hopefully anyway, I may have missed some cases.

1. … Q g21gn 2. R a3an

2. … Q g14g(n-1) 3. R anxgn and wins

2. … Q gnf(n-1) 3. R anfn Q g14f14 4. R a2an This prepares Rxf(n-1) leading to mate.

In the infinite case:

1. R h7hN (Where N is a large integer)

1. … Q g21g(N+1)!! 2. R a3aN Q g14gN 3. R aNxgN Qg7xgN and black goes on to win.

The game would never end because Infinite is not a number it's a concept so the rook would move up forever.

Wtf! Yesterday I watched some vídeos in this channel and now they are here!

Hello Agmadator!😃😃😃

Please cover this awesome game!

Kasparov vs Kramnik 1994…

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1070747

Sorry Agadmator, but your explanation betrays a poor understanding of the definition of infinity. Infinity is that which cannot be reached; subtracting any value from infinity yields infinity again. If black moves the d5 rook to d(infinity), he can never be mated because any distance the rook or queen travels up will not block the king against the rook. Things moving an infinite distance away become unreachable instantly, even to other things which are moving an infinite distance away.

throughout the entire video the one question in my head was "but if the board is infinite, then the rook will never stop moving up the board so the game cannot proceed" xD lol i know i have a wacky brain

Fantastic!

When he said D12, did anyone else think of Eminem?

Im confused. How does an infinite board allow a pawn to promote to rook, giving Black the needed third rock for this puzzle to be possible?

You can't make the board infinite?!

UnsubscribedI don't know the solution, but Carlsen would win this position with either color.

I got a question

If black move it's rook to infinity then you can give queen to d3 check. And then win the rook on f5 and then win other rook as well. Then go for a checkmate. Not using that pattern which is on the board but instead other patterns. Could it be possible?

On infinite chess board, no pawn could queen, that is slightly classist.

That's what he gets for promoting to a rook instead of a queen

What happens if u play took e5

#suggestion Wesley So vs Garry Kasparov in Ultimate Blitz Challenge 2016 – Game 10. In my opinion one of the most beautiful blitz games ever played on history of chess. I would love to see that game and I'm sure everyone else will enjoy it aswell! Can I get a shotout for the suggestion? Sorry for my english, Argentinian fan here 😂. Love your vids!

What if black play rook to b3 ??????

It was in this position that white resigned the game.

Look – if the guy playing black can all of a sudden make the board "infinite" – then he's already in a "winning" position in my book, and my next question to him would be: can you do something similar with the 3 dollars I have in my wallet?

#suggestion Please do a video on Sam Lloyd's famous puzzle : The Love Chase.

Hello Agadmator! I'm from Mexico City and I really enjoy watching all your videos! I'd like to request a game that is really interesting: Khanya Mazibuko (South African 16yr old CM) VS GM Hikaru Nakamura. It's very interesting that he actually decided to sponsor him after that game. I've not yet found the match, but I'd love to see it analyzed by you… BTW, HE BEAT THE GM!!! Thank you as always for these wonderful videos!

#suggestion

Leela vs lovlas

https://lichess.org/study/kLXrkT4M

With infinite board, passed pawns loose their value as they can never promote, so say a game where it is black with a rook versus white with 6 passed pawns, finite board means white is likely going to win but on infinite black would likely have better chances

Two principal ideas for a position that will favor one side and on an infinite board will favor the other side:

1. Queening that normally cannot be stopped, but is irrelevant on an infinite board.

2. A piece that would normally get trapped in a finite board, but can save itself in an infinite board.

Depending on how pawn promotion works on an infinite board, the difference between obviously winning and obviously losing could be trivial

If it's an infinite board then pawns can never get promoted. So how did black get that third rook?

must be hard to checkmate on an infinit chess board

White to mate in 232,655? I can barely see it when it's mate in 2.

Hey short answer to your question. No its not possible for white to be winning on any finite (no matter how large) board, and black to be winning on an infinite one. In Math you could discribe it like this:

The number of ways for black to win (if white plays the best moves) have to be zero for every amount of additional squares on your board. But for the limes of your squares to infinity the number has to be higher than 0. (At least one way for black to win).

We can build a sequence of A(n) where A is the number of ways to win for black and n is the number of squares you add to your chess board. It trivial that A(n)= 0 for every n < infinity. So you can use convergence laws on a constant sequence and see that the limes -» infinity is just the constant itself. Meaning A(infinity)=0 and there are zero ways to win for black. This contradiction proves that it is not possible for white to win on an finite but black to win on an infinite board.

I think it's your first video which got so many dislikes and so few likes

I have a question about your name. Do you like comic books?

Do black have a defense?

What if re5?

Infinite Othello/Reversi would be a draw because there's no corner.

Try doing the Knight's Tour on an infinite chessboard, then do it over again a few more times.

А что на ладья Rdc5

Here is the position: https://lichess.org/analysis/8/kp4nP/8/8/8/8/8/4K3_b_-_-

It remind me about "The Defense" by Vladimir Nabokov. The main character of the novel is top chess player. In one of the games he gets into losing position and then he realizes that the knight should jump out of the board to win the game. Eventually it becomes metaphor for the suicide.

#suggestion #answer

Hey agad,

Maths has huge application in almost every field as you can observe in chess also!!

There are tons of reason to fall in love with this subject!

1… Rd57,435,432,765,754,123,543

*offers draw

Hey man.. do a live-stream.. its been quite some time.. a 2 hour 3-0 non cash tournament on lichess.com with your witty commentary and lively beer fest would be my preference …

#suggestion

Black- Rook in g8 king in h8 queen in a8and pawns in h7 and g7

White- knite in h5 king in h2.

White started mate in one in regular board and he lose in infinity board

Interesting puzzle.

Note:

A really important factor in this logic is that you

onlyexpand the Y-axis indefinitely and not the X-axis, and that no one wants to draw through the 50th move rule.If there was no 50th move rule, there wouldn't be any possibilities for change and the game would simply end in a draw or continue indefinitely, following this pattern. However, introducing this rule will actually provide black a chance to win as long as white doesn't resign through this rule, or is fast enough to get to check with a new queen before black's checkmate. Think about it, for white to avoid a draw they have to keep moving a pawn. Since the rule for promotion is still the same, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_(chess), black will have three moves, without being checked by white, before the fastest white pawn can get its promotion at h8. As long as white continue this pattern of walking up the board and trying to promote the fastest pawn, black has a checkmate in three. Resulting in a win before white's promotion.

Conclusion:

If white plays a pawn tactic, that would make black's checkmate slower than white promotion + one more move for white, white is the winner through checking with new queen followed up with the old queen. Whereas as long as isn't the case, black will win.

This must be your the most stupid video ever Antonio.

Very Very Stupid video

Ah! Three rooks means a black pawn must have traveled an infinite distance to the far rank….

A trivial example of a scenario like you asked for is where you have a tactic which checkmates in the corner on a finite board. If there is no perpetual and the material is uneven enough, the tactic won't work and the other side will be winning.

I Watched her video and white would win in omega moves.

To answer your puzzle challenge… there would have to be some position where white would be winning if he had a pawn on the 7th rank with the opportunity to queen, but with an infinite board, he would be losing.

This is stupid, if the rook can move infinite squares then white never gets their turn and if the rook could actually move infinite squares then the king can also move infinite squares, it's a draw.

This must be one of your most interesting videos ever Antonio

More Puzzles please!

#suggestion 8 queens problem. Also a link to a numberphile related video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km024eldY1A&t=642s

Wtf black needs to move rook on d row, next queen d3 check and pics up the rook on d diagonal, whats the problem white wins even with infinite board easly…????

if infinite rock maybe .

because rd3 and takes rock at infinit posibilities .

The normal, finite chess is alread to much, I think infinit chess is maybe hopeless…;-)

generally I don't like it (i mean subject) – but don't worry about it xD

Can't white move the queen to D6or the rook to e6 and then do something from there?

Idk about adding pieces or whatever but ik you can't just say I move my rook to infinity it has to be finite meaning you eventually lose as black does that change?

4r1k1/5ppp/8/8/8/6QQ/5PPP/6K1 b – – 0 1

In this position black is winning, but if it were infinite, white could escape and there would me no mate

It is a silly example, but shows the pattern for all other solutions 😉

Really..? The solution is so easy. Keep checking the black king towards the a file. Separate the black king from the rooks and do a checkmate. Avoid the stupid infinite board going up and down (It is only there to confuse you).

Most positions where White sacrifices a lot of material to checkmate the black king in a king hunt would fall under this category because the king could go to g9 or h9 or something like that.

Also I interpreted this position as Black can't save himself on an infinite board if we revoke the 50-move rule, because he can't actually play a rook to d-infinity. He must move it a finite amount of squares, and then white can checkmate him with that number minus four amount of moves.

For infinite chess board, white will not able to have his turn, because the move of black rook will not end.

Regarding a losing position that flips to a winning position: How about a position where the losing player makes an infinite move which places the opposing player in zugzwang. To arrive at such a position, perhaps start with a known zugzwang position and add pieces to make it a losing position for the opponent. Then the infinite move flips the tables… to infinite zugzwang!

2:19 We learn Agad does not like math.

For a position where white is winning on a finite board but black is winning on infinite board: I'd say start with one where white is about to promote their pawn. On an infinite board, promotion is impossible. Back row mates are also not a thing.

White to play normal finite board: Smothered mate in 1. Infinite board: Black wins easily.

https://lichess.org/analysis/kn2Nqq1/nn6/q3qqq1/1q3qq1/qq1q2q1/qq1qq3/qq1qqq2/qq1qqqNK_w_-_-

Agadmator that is not possible practically bcoz if u take finite number of moves as 'x' then in infinite board it will always cover x moves irrespective of boards length mentioned as infinite and ofcourse at the x moves white is winning no chance of black

Really cool!!

what about Rd5 to e5 ….?

and another thing… you cannot put infinite number in real world practical applications lol…

Chess.com

These are some crazy thoughts. I like the concept, though!

A nice detour from the regular, Agadmator! It reminds me of your videos on the Harry Potter and House chess games 🙂

That’s one of the interesting topic from Kelsey. Good pick!

This FEN code…

7k/bR4p1/2R5/6n1/8/3q3r/6K1/5r2 w – – 0 1

The bishop, two white rooks and the black king and pawn are at the edge of the finite board. In a finite board its mate in 1 for white but on infinite board the bishop will eventually be able to block check. And the black mate the whit king.

So on a finite board white win but infinite board black win.

I don’t think there is any way to make it so that black is winning. Even with an infinite board, it’s forced mate in n+1

I've never heard of Infinite Chess before.

Black plays 1.Rdi

Every chess puzzle that involves promoting a pawn would probably be a win for the other side with an infinite board.

What about 50 rule?

Why isn't the board horizontally infinite as well?

wouldn't queen c8 be a checkmate after Re6 Kd7 – if the rook on D goes too far away the queen and rook can checkmate

What if rd5 move to e5? Maybe that can give a black some chance

As the board is infinite, black would be moving "forever". This means white can never move. I propose you offer a draw 😉

Is there a published solution to this?

Rook d5 to e5 avoids checkmate, just saying

In the puzzle on the "finite" board, what happens if black goes rook d5 to e5?

Many "trapped piece" positions may have the property you describe. Well, except that on an infinite chess board it would be very hard for either side to win. I'm not sure Q + R + K vs K would be a winnable endgame on an infinite board in all circumstances. I'm thinking something like trapping the enemy king between the rook's "wall" and the king, then sweeping in with the queen to deliver checkmate.

Black Rook b3 allows an escape?

One simple solution to your puzzle https://imgur.com/a/iTg7PGh

Agadmator, to answer your question at the end, yes it is possible in the following scenario: white is down in material, but threatening to promote to a queen on its next move and gain an advantage. By playing the same position on an infinite board, promotion would not be possible, and black would be the winning side.

Do more infinite puzzle … These are interesting

Rd∞ achieves a draw in the puzzle for black because white will make 49 checks and on black's 50th king move he will claim a draw by 50 moves, as this is truly a "perpetual" check 🙂

50 move rule is when only the opponents king is only left. So white is still winning.

I mean you dont really need infinite chess board, just imagine connecting the 1st. row with the ninth row and a column with h column but it would need to be separeted on the start otherwise it would also break the kings rule of chess by which I mean how close can be two kings to each other

I'm so glad rowan atkinson is teaching chess.

i like the idea mr. Agadmator but You also have to consider the '50 moves without a capture' rule. all the black rook has to do in an infinite chessboard, is to move as far away just enough so that the queen and the rook will have to spend more than 50 moves to give checkmate. thus ending in a draw.

Thank god the first men did not made chess these ways :))))))))) otherwise even Alpha zero needs at least one minute calculation before making any move :))))))))